This week at the SFF Seven, we’re asking: “Do you read in the genre you write?”
What’s funny is that my answer is absolutely yes – but that I didn’t always write in the genre I read. Does that make sense?
I have always read Fantasy and Science Fiction, since I was a little kid, and I’ve been reading Romance since I was old enough to walk to the used bookstore to buy my own books, as my mom wouldn’t let me read “that trash.” (Because she thought Romance was low-brow and anti-feminist, not because of the sex.) But when I started out as a writer, I wrote Creative Nonfiction.
Some of this was timing and coincidence. When I decided I wanted to be a writer instead of a scientist, one of the first classes I took was “Essays on Self and Place,” from a visiting writer at the university. I fell easily into writing essays and had success with them. My first book was an essay collection. And, sure, I read some essays. I read a lot of essay collections and memoir. But I was always reading them as research and reciprocity.
All that time, what I read for pure enjoyment? Anything with a paranormal/SFF element and plenty of Romance.
It was only after my first book came out that a friend – a bookseller who knew my tastes and sold me hardcover releases of JD Robb, Laurell K. Hamilton, Stephenie Meyer, and Jaqueline Carey – asked me why I wasn’t writing in the genres I so clearly loved to read.
Funny that. It simply hadn’t occurred to me. But then I started to, I wrote this Fantasy Romance* (not a genre then, but what did I know??) that was SO MUCH FREAKING FUN TO WRITE. I couldn’t believe how much more fun I had writing my crazy tale about a scientist who falls into Faerie, becomes a sorceress, and ends up in a bargain with a fae lord to bear his child. I even got a really nice rejection on the book from Stephenie Meyer’s agent! (Though it took a long time for me to sell it, which is another tale.)
The rest is history. ~ Waves at catalogue of Epic Fantasy Romances ~ I haven’t looked back. Writing what I love to read has absolutely been a great decision.
Some real numbers comparing the same book and series self-published vs. traditionally published – Spoiler: first month revenue is already 10% of 10 years of trad – & other thoughts on trad vs. indie.
Transcript
00:01.26
jeffekennedy
Good morning, everyone! This is Jeffe Kennedy author of epic fantasy romance I’m here with my first cup of coffee. Delicious.
00:19.20
jeffekennedy
Ah, so good. How are you all today is Monday August date 16 22 I don’t know why it seems like there’s so many good dates lately. Bumping the table here. So um, we are New Week New week hopefully a productive week I need a productive week. Um I’m still on track with shadow wizard I’m losing a little bit of my buffer. I did not have um, a rocking writing day on Friday for no good reason I am happy to report that. However I am caught up on royalty crunching who I’ve caught up two months ‘ worth. Always interesting. Um, just to have a break from the royalties and come back and sort of see what the sales are like and one thing that’s very interesting. Sorry if I’m using that word way too many times. Um, you can’t adjust hold on a moment. My chair is could be apart. Ah, you know it’s like one of those selfassemble patio chair things and so it has the. It’s probably gonna be too hard to explain but you know like the caps that you screw on to the ends that hold it in place and one of the caps came off and I had it sitting here on the table but very lazily had not put it back on ah because it was one of those you know like two step projects where it required me to go inside the house. To get a screwdriver to come back out and screw it on and somehow I just never would not take that freaking long but somehow I never made that complete circuit and no I’m not sure where the piece has gone hopefully some. Critter didn’t carry it off but now it’s um, bending enough that it’s like pulling entirely out of the socket without the cap thingy to hold it on so the ah problem’s becoming more pointed but. We already spent way too much podcast time on that. Ah, ah so interesting. So interesting fascinating I think that’s why they came up with fascinating for Spock because interesting just got too boring. Um.
03:07.34
jeffekennedy
On my covenant of thorns books this is a great example of traditional publishing versus self-publishing. You know what? and I’m even Goingnna oh I’m not going bring up the exact numbers. But. So I started releasing rereleasing Covenant of Thorn’s series Rogue’s Pawn being book one in July and then Rogue’s Possession came out later july and then third book Rogue’s Paradise is coming out in August and. For all three books considering this is a series that’s 10 years old fabulous covers beautiful covers um but old books I shared a um review on the podcast on friday. Was a very interesting review I shared it with Grace and she’s like wow that’s a great review and I was like well it’s sort of ah a mixed review but I would much rather have a review that notices. Um and notes how I’ve grown as a writer and for me going back and reading those first books. Is a little bit cringy. It’s a good reminder for me. Um, when I read new authors first books that I should probably like read one of their later books too because um, ah I mean thank goodness I’ve gotten so much better. But wow you know and people told me then that it was overwritten and I didn’t think it was ah but ah the hubris of youth and newbiness right? Ah yeah, ah. In one contest. Someone told me that it was um, overwritten like Anne Rice is overwritten and I took that as a compliment. Um I think I’m way worse than Anne Rice ah but um anyway these books are being well received but they’re not burning up the charts I mean they’re not like hugely high rankings I’ve got more preorders for book 3 than I have for books 1 or 2 I like twice as many which is really nice. So that means that the people that are reading it and loving it. Are wanting to read that third book. That’s awesome. Um, but you know it’s like it’s still double digits I mean I don’t even have preorders in the triple digits which is fine. You know it’s like that’s kind of what I expect for rereleasing an old series like this right? so.
05:54.79
jeffekennedy
Even with fairly low but climbing preorder numbers I’m trying to walk the line here I I don’t want you to Um, oh what am I trying to say I’m trying to set the correct expectation here because I figured. If I was lucky if things went well that I could recoup my investment in putting a new cover and reformatting the book putting it up for sale. Ah in the first month and I’m going to do that easily more. For the first two books and with pre-orders alone for the third book each of those books has already I mean you’ll just like in numbers I don’t have the money yet, but they’ve already earned 10 to 12% of the lifetime sales. Of the books that did that they earned through Carina press. Okay, so let me rephrase that just in case I put that in a confusing way because I track all the sales of all my books. So in all the time 10 years that those books were with Carina Press and Carina paid me quarterly royalties on those books. So I know how much each book has earned over its lifetime via Carina in the time that I have had these up self-published a month for the first book. A month the two days they’ve already earned 10 to 12% of those lifetime sales one month versus ten years right? So when we talk about self- publishishing. And the money that you can earn in self-p publishing. There is a concrete example now why didn’t these books earn more money through Carina press. There’s a couple of factors and if you all already self publish or if you are um, you know, follow. Self-pubbers then you know this information but I’m going to share it here anyway because it does bear repeating part of it is the percentage. Um from Carina press even though they gave me a very generous I think 45% something like that of the. Net so that means of the money that they get after the wholesale price and all of that they gave me 45% of that price. So and actually.
08:42.34
jeffekennedy
Okay, so I went ahead and opened the spreadsheet just so I could give you some actual numbers because I calculate approximately how much I earn per book. Um, well this is going to be a little bit deceptive. However, okay, well let me give you the the numbers. From through Carina Press which is harlequin which is under harper collins. We’re looking at big consolidation of presses. So it’s worth it looking at that tiering. Ah penguin already emerged with random house. Now Simon Shuster is looking to acquire penguin random house. So anyway before and you know under them. My books were earning I would get ¢71 to a dollar for per per book. Now I have to do some quick baths self publishing I’m getting $3 per book. Um, so easily 3 times I’m making per book so that adds up fast. The other piece of it is. Marketing. Um, and we were having this conversation over the weekend. Ah Minerva Spencer and Katie Lane are their writing names came to brunch at my house on Saturday and we. Set out in the grape arbor and talked business. It was lovely and the demystifying thing is is because we have all published traditionally and self published. And it can just be mystifying what the traditional publishers are doing I do pretty basic marketing on that Covenant of Thorns series and it’s like a 1,000 times more than Carina press did on them especially 10 years later um we were gossiping about one friend of ours who’s who had a bestselling book Usa today but still bestselling book did enormously well but it came out a long time ago now. Um, somebody was saying 3 years but I think it’s longer than 3 years because 3 years was beginning of pandemic that amazing. Um, well it was like leading up into ah it’s on my mind because like Minerva Spencer I had not seen her since September of 2019 so it was nearly three years since I had last seen her in the flesh.
11:28.84
jeffekennedy
And it’s funny to think that um you know three years ago August of 2019 I was at world con in Dublin and we traveled around Ireland just seems ages ago. So um, anyway I think this this gal’s book came out. Probably five or six years ago yeah could be even six or 7 definitely pre 2017 so that gives us a ah range anyway. But she gets very upset that her traditional publisher is not. Pouring more publicity that they’re publicizing other books newer books and not hers which ah you know sometimes that happens that way. Oh. Mosquito so it’s this is what traditional and publishers do. They’re always about the new shiny. They don’t care about the older books. Um.
12:47.54
jeffekennedy
And and it’s to the detriment of the author because I mean you know like this girl’s perfectly right to be upset that they’re not publicizing this book. Especially I mean everybody could be making money on this but they just don’t they also. Just don’t seem to know how to position books which is bizarre and they fully believe that they do know I mean they’re just certain that they are in the right? So it’s this very interesting thing. Um that there are what, one of the gals I don’t remember who they might have both said it is like well why are people still going with traditional publishers and I still think there are good reasons to publish traditionally. But as far as making a living and getting your books out there. Ah. And makes all the difference and and what’s funny is that the traditional publishers and we all know this because we have editors and agents saying this to us as they’ll say well you know you just can’t make real money self-p publishishing and they always want to go back to the Statistic. You know that most self-p publishers. Only ever sell a hundred copies a year and and it’s like yeah, but then you have to look at the the other end of the spectrum that you know you’re not looking at the person who decide to you know, write their memoir and. Printed it out for their kids and grandkids. Um, besides which we don’t have to sell as many copies to make really good money as evidenced by this statistic I’m just fascinated by that it has made this big of a difference because I thought well. You know should I even republish. These am my sinking good money into this for no reason it’s going to be great. It’s going to be awesome. I was also counting up like how many books I sold at Apollycon because in the world of the convention. You know, ah it was just like sale sale sale I sold a lot of copies of Rogues Pawn I didn’t realize how many but that was the right crowd for that book I did not sell as many copies of dark wizard as I thought I would I do have a mosquito candle out here now to fend off the mosquitoes. Ah, see if that works I’d scooted it closer because there’s a couple of mosquitoes hovering hovering hungrily. So um.
15:30.26
jeffekennedy
You know it’s just really interesting what you sell in different venues and I think this is one of the things that self-publishers are able to do is that I can go and I can see which of my books sell on site and what I can say to readers that elicits their attention. I think it’s really super cool that I sold so many copies of the print version of rogue spawn um, for $10 right? Ah, but they love that it was a face story. So um. My point and I do have one. You know that there are people in traditional publishing who make a huge amount of money but there are lots who don’t and even the ones who are making a decent living the dreaded midlist right? which has become kind of a curse. But. There was a statistic that came out the other day that said that um I don’t know if they put a percentage on it but it was most and and I believe that it is most traditionally published authors are making $25000 a year or less which is. Below poverty level in the us and I I don’t know if that’s before or after taxes. But it’s still It’s not much money. Actually I think it was $20000 a year because the person who retweeted it into my timeline said that they were. Doing relatively well compared to many of their compatriots and they’re making $25000 a year. Um, which is still not enough to live on and traditional publishing persists in this idea that um. You know that we should be grateful for the money we are making I think ah one of my friends has been kind of struggling because ah, her traditional sales have fallen off. Um, we think we know why I think I know why actually I gave her. Um. A really good insight and I’ve seen this happen to a number of my friends that’s bragging isn’t it I thought it was great insight. She agreed. Okay, so in in two cases I’m thinking of specifically and I could probably think of a lot more There was an author who was selling incredibly well in a particular thing and their publisher changed the branding of it in 1 case, an author was told no no, we don’t want more of these of this subgenre. We want you to write this other subgenre.
18:11.45
jeffekennedy
And the books just didn’t do as well and the publisher is like huh I wonder what happened? Well you went off of the main readership and this other friend of mine who has done fabulously well in. Traditional publishing to the point where she didn’t really want to self-p publishlish because she’s like I’m making better money and trap and it’s like well wherever you’re making better money and go for it but now ah her most recent series. The sales are really tanked and I realized how they changed from her main branding that these books don’t. Look or feel or have the same wording as the ones where her main platform is and and it’s a departure and and once I pointed this out to her. She’s like you know what? I’m going to put these words in my next title and I’m going to see what’s what happens and it’s like great. We can do this as self publishers meanwhile in traditional publishing land. Her editor actually said to her that it’s because she’s self-publishing that she’s diluting her sales and that’s and it’s her fault and this is what they do in traditional publishing is they tell the author that it’s their fault and because it can’t possibly be theirs. And it’s nonsense. It’s I I was telling this story to Minerva and Katie this weekend and both of them immediately said that’s bullshit because we all know that readers read much faster than we can write and they they want more books. They don’t. Get tight. They don’t say oh ho ha another j– oops sorry another Jeffe Kennedy ah slight slip there wonder if I could fudge it out I bet I didn’t say as much as I thought I did we’ll see. Ah, but yeah, another Jeffe Kennedy Blah you know it’s maybe there are some who say that but the passionate readers they want more and this idea that um, which tread really holds onto that you know that they feel that it should be 1 book a year and I even had that. Um, on my last traditional publishing excursion. You know when we were talking about the frequency of the books and they said well our market research shows that the books do best if we release some nine months apart I kind of wanted to say well, what market research is that. Because it’s sure not how it looks from our perspective. The other interesting thing about self-publishing and this is a conversation that Minerva Katie and I were having was how we know what it takes to make a good cover. We know exactly how expensive a cover is.
20:57.00
jeffekennedy
We know about layers and putting them together. You have to learn I mean it’s just like at first you don’t know and you gradually learn so when a traditional publisher comes to us and this has happened to all of us. And says look at this beautiful expensive cover and we’re like that’s clip art and this part doesn’t look right? Can you fix this and they’re like oh no, it would take so much to fix that we’re like no, no, no, all you do is go in and tweak that layer. Um and they still want to act like we don’t know this that they can still blow sunshine. Ah. So this has turned somewhat into an indictment of tread which I don’t mean it to be because um I there are a lot of things I love about traditional publishing. Um and I will still try to publish traditionally but there. I feel like we’ve been saying for more than a decade now that traditional publishing is going to have to change what they’re doing and they are somehow mysteriously still not doing it. Um, but yeah, just being able to. To make a living as a writer. There are not many people who can do that without also self- publishing or without having a sidegig. So um I do think and we were all agreeing is in our conversation Saturday that. It was huge for all 3 of us that we had already traditionally published and had that readership they’re they’re good at establishing that readership and so it made self publishing much easier. It’s it’s harder when you’re coming right out of the gate as a self-p publisher. Unfortunately, that’s just how it is. So on that note I’ve chattered on long I hope you all have a wonderful Monday and a wonderful week and I will talk to you all tomorrow you all take care bye bye.
ROGUE’S POSSESSION is out today!! Otherwise I’m talking about worldbuilding from a character-driven perspective and being aware as an author of what readers want for your characters.
Transcript
00:01.87
jeffekennedy
Good morning, everyone! This is Jeffe Kennedy author of epic fantasy romance here with my first cup of coffee.
00:14.67
jeffekennedy
But delicious today is Tuesday July Twenty Sixth um last working day week of July for me, not day week. Um, yeah. Kind of short week for me as I mentioned yesterday tomorrow I fly to a polyon word. The transcript cannot handle and. See if I do some podcasts from there or not. We got some rain last night. So everything is looking sprightly this morning sprightly and happy. And yeah. Ah, so I got a lot done yesterday. I was happy with what I got done yesterday I got a full hour of words in before I even met up with Darynda and so I was done by um I could tell you what time I was done by. Love being done early in the day I was done by 1130 had my 2000 words in by 1130 and that’s just the best. Um I really love having my words done by noon and I think iquito think I might have to go back to that. Kind of schedule. Um, it means getting up earlier. Sorry for the squirming around if you’re on video thesquitoes are getting me. Ah yeah, just really helps me to. Have words done before noon so that the afternoon is then for business I hear some writers talk about that they do like writing in the morning and then editing in the afternoon. But for me editing takes very much the same muscle as drafting. So. I think um, it it draws from the same world. So it doesn’t work that way for me sounds like a nice way to do it. But sorry for the scrape there decided to scoot you a little closer so I could sit back sit back and relax so um one thing that I did make some notes while I was gone of things I wanted to talk about I was reading a book. Ah I’ve I’ve discovered that.
02:58.45
jeffekennedy
It’s growing harder and harder for me to talk about the books that I’m reading because and it may be partly the podcast because I want to be able to dissect them and talk about what doesn’t work for me in them. And I feel I’m torn because I want to support the authors of the books by talking up their books. But then if I’m talking about their books. Critically I don’t feel like I should say. So I read this book that is by ah, it’s a fantasy romance. The romance was very thin um slow burn and picks up in the next book. But I didn’t. Didn’t care enough to keep going. Um, you know so that’s like not something I would ever what to say publicly about a book tell you guys which book it was tell you all which book it was ongoing effort to flense “guys” from my. Vocabulary. So so one I wanted to talk about I don’t need to go down this rabbit hole of this specific book and what worked and what didn’t for me but one thing I want to talk about is being aware and it’s a delicate line to walk of what your readers want for your characters and and this is. It’s dicey right? because you don’t know what you don’t know what your readers want necessarily but you do have to know for guess sense. There’s a certain amount of fan service in satisfying the readers with what they want a character to be able to have and do and. There’s a lot of joking that goes around all the time about um, authors torturing their characters I shared a meme a little while back that was pretty funny. Ah it was from a movie that I have to he’s.
05:39.14
jeffekennedy
So and there’s our hummingbird. Ah so a lot of activity out here this morning. Sorry the birds distracted me so thinking in terms of oh the beam. The meme. Ah it was from a movie that I recognized but couldn’t identify. You know what? I mean but it showed. Ah. Driver of the car ah with a manic expression on their face. Um the car clearly hurtling out of control and two people in the back seat screaming and it said ah when oh I’m not going to do a good job of explaining it. Ah, it said basically ah when ah when my when a favorite character dies and it’s shows you know the person driving the car is the author me my best friend screaming in the backseat I thought it was funny. So so but there are a lot of jokes about. Authors torturing their characters and I see authors talking from time to time about you know someone once called me out on that saying see someone talking but you see somebody talking and writing right? I. You I’m distracted this morning and I I saw an ah I see authors talking often about how they love to torture their characters and it never feels that way to me. I’m always on the side of my characters. Um the the world does terrible things to them sometimes but I’m always on the side of my characters figuring out how to deal with it. So I feel like I’m riding in the car too. I think that would be more accurate. So.
07:54.86
jeffekennedy
Ah I probably should have formulated this idea better before I start talking about it. But I figure out things as I talk about them just as I figure out things as I write about them. There’s a theme there right? So So this book. Let me go back to my concrete example that eventually the author did deliver on what I wanted but there was an extended period of the character being thrust into a role. That they did not want and being unhappy about that and longing for their old life which is I mean that’s heroo’s journey so you know it’s It’s certainly a a standard trope you know resisting. Call to action. But as a reader I really wanted this for this character I wanted this um responsibility this position and I didn’t like that. So many of the other characters. This is another thing about characters being mean to each other but I’ll come back to that. Hopefully if I remember I didn’t like that So many of the other characters were so against this person. Having this position. Um, and I felt like the world building was a little weak and I just taught this class for ah the clarion White Riaththon and I’m gonna be teaching it at Worldcon I just got noticed I’m gonna be giving this workshop at Worldcon. Which is world buildinging from a Character-d Driven perspective. So. It’s really cool that people want to to see this workshop and find it valuable. Basically it’s my approach that setting up the world in order to. Ah. Best put your characters through the crucible right? So which I suppose is is me driving the car to be fair. No, it’s me picking out the worst possible car I don’t know we won’t go. We won’t spend a lot of time on that analogy. But in this particular book. The there was this sense that the protagonist.
10:36.13
jeffekennedy
Could not have this position because of their gender and but the rest of the there were elements of that. But then the rest of the world didn’t necessarily support this and this is something I talk about in that workshop a lot.. It’s like. Okay, if you decide that you want females to be second class citizens and because of gender. Then first of all, be aware that you are Kneejerk Mimiic mimicking our patriarchal society. Which has been. You know our history has been extensively massaged to support that idea so be aware of those things and and if you’ve listened to me for a long Time. You’ve heard me talk about this before. But also know why you’re choosing that I mean are you choosing that just to sort of keep your your female characters down. Um, if there is a. It. It just has to be supported and and I realize I’m getting myself into a muddle because I’m trying not to give Details. So This isnt like an alternate fantasy world where the the lord of of the of the Land. Um. Yeah, which is basically it’s sort of like a a feudal. It’s It’s kind of like a Victorian England type society. Ah so it’s sort of as if the the duke were chosen by a magical means and the. Female protagonist is unexpectedly chosen and there’s a sense of that. No the world can’t that there’s There’s a dueling sense of that. No. She can’t. Be this because she’s female but she has to be this because she’s magically chosen and it was sort of halfway done. It was like well be can can a woman hold this position or not ah and I felt like the author just and it was a first book So you know. There’s something to that. The son is coming after me here I have just good over. Um, in fact I think I’ll just commit and do that That’s better. So You know it’s like either females have rights so they don’t.
13:17.57
jeffekennedy
Either females can be in positions of power or they can’t and obviously we’re talking a binary here. But so that’s that’s one piece is like when you’re creating a world even if you’re creating a world that is a close fac simile of our world or what we believe our historical world to have been. And you all have if you’ve listened for a long time. You’ve heard me talk about ah the de faux medieval fantasy setting which has very little to do with what the medieval era was actually like I had one um, really interesting reader contact me and talk about. Ah, gave me some interesting feedback where she um I believe she was a she her said that she was an historian and that she could talk about all of this stuff. You know like of how our ideas of what medieval. Society and culture and daily life were like are so incredibly wrong and have been so extensively massaged and really um oh what’s the word I want denigrated um, made to see much much worse than it was anyway, that’s another topic. Ah, but I will touch on this that when you do have a society where rights are based on gender which does reflect our society but you have to look at why and. How this is a very very long complicated history and how it affects people’s interactions you know is it exactly against the law or is it custom in this book. It wasn’t clear is it is there a higher law There wasn’t a sense of there being any higher law to the land. Um, it’s just it’s not devastating but it’s just slightly weak world-building you know it’s different whether or not things are actually illegal or whether they’re custom. Ah, but also how do. The other if things are very gender based how do other people react and this kind of comes around to my thing about characters being mean to each other I have a problem in books where where every character.
15:54.81
jeffekennedy
In the book is aligned against the protagonist and that was not the case in this book but there were a lot who who either were or were just sort of tangentially oblivious and it’s. In cases like that people do form alliances. You know like for instance, if females generally don’t hold positions of power and a female is thrust into a position of power ah by magical decision. The other females are going to have opinions about this. The males are too. But the other females are going to have feelings and many of those will be feelings of solidarity and again if you’ve listened to me for a long time. You know that I have that it’s one of the things that I complain about a lot is when female characters in a story. Are not supportive of each other that they don’t have real friendships. Ah I feel like this comes from fiction tropes rather than from real life because at least I hope because in real life. Especially where when rights are threatened people who are being deprived of those rights band together to protest right? That’s what we’re seeing. You know we see it with black lives matter. We see it with ah the protests against the overturn of Roe versus wade in the us. The other people who are being similarly oppressed are going to have feelings about this you and I realize that in a fantasy story. You may not want to get into all of that but it it has to be part of that world building iceberg right? There’s that great diagram with. The tip of the iceberg being like the things that show in the story. But then there’s all that stuff underneath. So so yeah I think um, but then the other piece is and I talked about this in that workshop as well is being. Aware of what your reader wants for that person and what your reader is bringing to the page because one person asked me if there were tropes I felt like were outdated world building tropes and I said well like one that I personally have a lot of trouble with is the. Fantasy story where the female characters are not allowed to have the education where they’re not allowed to go to the academy where they’re you know not allowed to get x y z and yes I know I have written this with ah.
18:39.68
jeffekennedy
Chronicles of test area that women are universally not taught anything even how to count and I did that for very specific reasons but I and and I made it extreme on purpose for that reason because when a reader. Picks up a book where the female characters are not allowed to go to university where they’re otherwise educated but not allowed to go to university it begins to feel a little unsupported it begins. It’s hard for us to identify because. Well I know there are parts of the world where females are denied education. It’s pretty rare now and so it’s a leap you want to keep in mind what your character what your reader wants for the character and in my case I really wanted my character. To be to seize this opportunity and not be all oh woe is me I wish I had my old life back I’ll ah allow a little bit of it. But then I wanted and eventually that change did happen. Um, but I want to. Ah, wanted more and maybe more would come in the subsequent books. So ah, that may have been a slightly muddled explanation I’ll keep thinking about it. Ah, but maybe I’ll weave it into the worldt building from a character driven perspective wforkshop at WorldCon if you’re going to world con or which you should be able to attend virtually as well and I’m realizing that I should have led with this today’s release day for Rogue’s Possession! Woohoo so it’s out in the world now. Um. So now you can buy the first two books and the third book comes out in a few weeks which means I need to get my act together and make my tweaks on it. So um, it’s weird having these releases of books I’ve already written because it feels like ah I don’t know. It’s it’s slightly anti-climatictic um, but I’m really pleased at how well these books are selling. It’s great to see a book that’s been out for ten years by any new readers. So on that note I am going to go do a few release day things. And I am going to get more words and get ready to fly to world con tomorrow if if you’re going to be there and you see me, please please say hi would love that every once a while I um.
21:26.94
jeffekennedy
Like I talked to this gal online and she said you know I wrote in an elevator with you at a conference and I was I wanted to say hi but I was too ah too shy like ah like oh please don’t be shy I am I try to be nice I think I’m nice. I love talking to people so do say hi and I will um, maybe talk to you all on Thursday maybe on Friday probably not on Monday because I have jury duty right. So certainly a week from today if nothing else you all take care bye bye.
Print version of ROGUE’S PAWN is available! I’m also talking about some history, mean reviews from the past, the conversation about whether authors should talk to readers, “hidden gems” & asking for recs.
Transcript
00:02.90
jeffekennedy
Good morning, everyone! This is Jeffe Kennedy author of epic fantasy romance I’m here with my first cup of coffee. Delicious Today is Thursday July seventh and it’s it’s a Thursday here we are I’m feeling so behind on all of the things and I was excuse me complaining to David about it saying why am I so behind on everything. Have I been saying this for a while I kind of feel like I’ve been behind since a nebula conference. But then in June I went traveling for a week right? And then I’ve had friends here which hasn’t been that intensive but it’s been. Disruptive you guys know how I don’t like my schedule to be disrupted I am also totally aware now of how ubiquitous the phrase you guys is it’s in movies. It’s everywhere I am trying to lense it from my vocabulary with limited success thus far. Least I’m aware of saying it but a lot of people say it. So um, so yeah, I’m really hopeful this weekend that I can get caught up on some stuff. David asked me this morning. If I had ridden my bike that we let’s see when we came back from Tucson in April April while we were gone I had it. At the bike shop so they could tune it up so because it wasn’t in shape to ride and I wanted to ride it and I was pulling into the garage last night and saw my bike there poised in front of my car and David asked me if I had ridden it since we picked it up and the answer is no I have not spent. Hundred and fifty dollars to get all tuned up and ready and I haven’t touched the fucking thing but but you know for a while it was really windy and then it’s I don’t know I have no excuse except that. Just feel like I haven’t had time and so I was starting to say hopefully this weekend I would get caught up on a bunch of stuff I’m hoping to but then on the weekend I also want to relax. So maybe I can go for a bike ride I have.
02:50.31
jeffekennedy
Ah, shit ton of stuff to mail out and I think would help me I I keep thinking in terms of and I do this to myself a lot where I want to get everything ready so I can mail it all out at once and and it creates this enormous bottleneck whereas what I should do is just mail things out gradually. So I do have print copies of storm princess I need to mail those I should just start mailing. Um, mailing mailing so some of it requires. Research like what is the least expensive way to send a thing and well I feel like I almost need a step by step list. Um I also feel like I need that with some of the side projects you know like. Rogue’s pawn is out but already I need to be thinking about getting book two rogue’s possession I just have to make a few changes to it. That’s these little tasks right? and making good progress on shadow wizard I’m having a lot of fun writing jeron. Even sent a snippet to caring yesterday I should ask her if it’s too spoilery because I’m thinking about posting it. You guys know. Ah you all know that I don’t um, post a lot of snippets of my work in progress. But I’m tempted to post this one. 1 of the things on my list is get to get the preorder set up for shadow wizard. So just all these things to do. Um I need to ship stuff out for a polycon too. And yeah. So let’s see. Yeah um, Kelly and Alex are only here for two more days they fly out on Saturday. So um, so we’re doing some fun things today and tomorrow which won’t help with getting caught up. But maybe I could get a few of these tasks. Done. So let’s see um one thing that was um, just this kind of funny serendipitous thing was I complained to a group of authors I was emailing with.
05:26.65
jeffekennedy
We were emailing about something else organizing a thing but I was um I was being cranky and I apologize for being cranky and I said that part of it was because um, what was of miscellaneous things. But anyway we got into telling these stories about I’m trying to say if I want to tell you I don’t want to sound ungrateful or like a bad person I’m still thinking about Mary Robinette talking about. Ah. Like apologies on the internet and are you really trying to apologize or do you want people to think that you’re a good person because don’t we all want people to think we’re good people and sometimes we’re not sometimes we’re not a good person. Um, so okay so I’ll be honest. Ah I saw this Instagram post from a reader who did a really nice post showing one of the uncharted reless books and she called it an underrated series. And she loves it and I love that she loves it and it’s it’s meant in all sincerity and but you know it’s just sometimes when you’ll it’s like one of my oldest series and when. I don’t know when somebody calls it underrated I understand what they mean they mean that it doesn’t have the fandom you know like Sarah J Mos or Jennifer O out arm in Trump which is absolutely true. It’s it’s not as well known, but it still. It just put me in a little bit of a mood where I was just like and I think I was already in that mood because I was talking about this some at the beginning of the week it’s just like I don’t know every once in a while and and people do mean it in all sincerity and enthusiasm. But you encounter readers. Who um, discover your books and they’re like why haven’t I heard of your books before and you’re like it’s the million dollar question I don’t know why I wish you had I’m glad you know now. So i. I hesitate to complain about that kind of thing because I don’t want anyone to not share about in fangirl. My books. You know? So um, but it’s still I don’t know it was a mood and.
08:12.92
jeffekennedy
So I I shared this with these girls and said you know and one of them wrote back to me and she said Jeffe I want you to know that a few weeks ago I was at a book signing and a reader came up to me and she said ah. That I that she knows I’m new to this and that but that I’m very talented and she really hopes that I keep going which is a lovely thing to say right? The thing is is it wasn’t for that this author it was she said it was like for the 7th book in her sixth romance series. You know? So it’s like but you know hope you keep going and one of the other girls chimed in and said that she saw a Tiktok video that was like on hidden gems. Which you know people like to do and it’s a wonderful impulse because it’s like let’s not all always post about the same 5 books and I’m seeing more and more complaints about this kind of thing. Um, even my assistant said something about it the other day after I’d heard some other people complaining about it where she was saying. She was finding it hard to get good book recommendations because everybody recommends the same 5 books and and there’s a cultural phnom to that right? because the people who are posting like the Tiktok videos and so forth they want their posts to be. Liked and get a whole lot of comments. So if you post about something that I just knocked myself off the ledge here. Oh there we go um, overly dramatic. Not much but you know you you if you post about a book that already has a huge fandom. You’re much more likely to get attention for that right? It’s sort of a side effect of that fandom. Um, but it does result in this the same book’s being recommended and my assistant was. Frustrated the other day saying I can’t get book wrecks anymore because it’s always the same same books and so the the whole impulse behind underrated books or undervalued books. Hidden gems. All of it. It’s great because the thing is is that and and I should say this to myself is it’s not really hidden gems or underrated books. It’s just like books that aren’t these five books. It’s ah like this big huge the venn diagram right is like everything else.
11:01.43
jeffekennedy
The 5most popular books and everything else. Um, but anyway she said that she had seen a tick talk video on hidden gems that ah was about a book by colleen hoover ah who is easily the james patterson of romance you know and it’s like not exactly a hidden gym. So so yeah, um, it’s all good I really don’t want to stifle. Anybody’s enthusiasm. You should be able to rave about anything that you like. Whether it’s the same 5 books that everybody else likes or something that nobody’s heard of It’s just a funny, a funny phenomenon I saw somebody quote yesterday um about again about tiktok and how. Maybe the quieter books don’t have the content that makes for good tiktok videos and it’s like I don’t know you know and I think that’s a response to if it’s not about. Big blue aliens was vibrating dicks than it makes for bad content I think anything to make for good content. So anyway, that’s that’s one of my thoughts. Um I was very interested I made a note about this. And I’ll see if I can link to it in the comments. Um, but there was this thing that happened quite a few years ago and I was reminded of it when I was looking up rachel vincent I mentioned her in my podcast the other day. Um, because Rachel Vincent had written that book Stray that I liked very much that was an urban fantasy and when I went to look her up to see you know like what is she doing these days I don’t know rachel I don’t think I’ve ever met her um wish her well in general because I enjoyed her books. So I was looking her up and I found a review of Stray on Dear Author and I think I don’t think dear author is still extant um Jane Litte was one who did dear author with another gal I think it was amy tan and then amy tan backed away. And Jane Litte and Sarah wendell were very good friends and sarah wenddell had smart smart bitches trashy books which I know is still going. Um, but there used to be a lot of back and forth between the 2 but anyway Jane Litte did a review of Stray and.
13:51.36
jeffekennedy
I will link to it because it is in her inimitable style. A really mean review. Um, and it was interesting because at the time she was leading a whole lot of conversation about how authors. Um, should not interact with readers that reviews were for readers and someone pointed out to her that by writing her reviews as dear author and then sincerely Jane as if she was writing a letter to them made it seem very much as if she is writing the review for the author. And not for the readers. She gave the book a d and it was um, it was harsh. It was really harsh and I noticed in her bio on there that she had updated it where she said that she writes. Um, contemporary and and a romance and I happen to know that that’s not the only thing she writes she has a number of pen names. But I remember when it came out that she was also a writer because prior to that it had been a secret and Sarah Wendell had known the secret and had kept it quiet and Sarah Sarah posted an apology and it’s hard to explain how explosive this was at the time because Jane had been so much on this side of that authors should stay out of reader conversations. And reviews are for readers and you know, never the Twain shall meet and she um called out authors for you know, interfering with readers. She was even say she would even say that. Um. Authors shouldn’t even like say thank you on reviews or respond in any way because it would have a chilling effect. I mean there were a lot of these conversations and then it turned out that she had been secretly writing under a pen name. So I found it interesting that her bio now acknowledge is the thing that everybody found out. And the reason they found it out was because of the Ellora’s Cave lawsuit ah because Jane had written a blog article about Ellora’s Cave and all of the things that they were doing to cheat authors and Ellora’s Cave sued her. For slander and just to revisit quickly in order to sue for slander you need to prove that it has had a negative effect on your business and that it is um.
16:36.54
jeffekennedy
I’m not sure if it has to be untrue, but at any rate they sued and her real name which is not Jane Litte her but her actual real life name was named in the lawsuit and so it all came out this way that because it was public record right. So it. It was I believe they settled out of court and then Laura’s cave subsequently folded. But yeah, it was just interesting to recall some of that history. So I thought I would share it. With some of you. But um, you know it’s it’s one reason why I don’t review books that I don’t like um and in some ways I could say that I don’t even I don’t know if I even. Review books because I certainly don’t do a critical review where I break stuff down sometimes I complain to you all anonymously here. Um without naming the book just so I can talk about general principles of story. But um I take it can be It is a narrow line between critiquing the work and being unkind or even mean to an author because you didn’t like their book and. And I think it’s interesting to read this review and I I encourage you to go read it because things have changed since then this was quite a while ago I didn’t look at the date on it but probably something like 2007 2006 given that’s when I was. Trying to figure out my how many words were on a page reference Tuesday’s podcast um so I’m not sure that people would get away with it in the same way now or that they would want to? um. early days of the internet versus maturity where I don’t know maybe the meanness is of a more pointed and different variety. But um, yeah, breaking down someone’s book like that as if you’ve written them a letter and. But it’s posted publicly and then just saying all this stuff and I suppose it’s admirable in some ways that she has not taken these down she clearly stands by them. But I think we have to ask ourselves what we’re doing particularly knowing that she was an author at the same time.
19:23.68
jeffekennedy
It’s um, yeah, a pretty fine line between critiquing work in a thoughtful way and attempting to eviscerate the competition. Ah you know and maybe it comes back to that thing that I was talking about the other day that. You know competition especially in like the reading and writing world. It’s it’s invidious. It’s unfair. There’s no place for it. Maybe that’s part of the frustration with people recommending the same books over and over Again. It’s like well it’s Great. You know and they’re. They’re wonderful books. That’s why people love them. But you can only reread them so many times right? and then you want to read other books. So So I’ve been looking through some things in my tbr trying some different stuff out I’m um. I’m really in the mood for a very emotional lush romance and it doesn’t have to be fantasy if anyone can point me to that I want something. That’s really yeah, emotionally transporting not mean I’m I’m finding I don’t want any of the bully stuff. Um, but yeah, something something really moving hit me with your res please and you all take care and I will talk to you to crew Bye bye.
ROGUE’S PAWN is out today! I’m talking about the re-release of this, my very first novel, and reflecting on the 15 years that have passed since I began writing it, along with my baby-author hopes and dreams at the time.
Transcript
00:01.51
jeffekennedy
Good morning, everyone! This is Jeffe Kennedy author of epic fantasy romance I’m here with my first cup of coffee. It was delicious. Um I actually already drank it today is. Um, Tuesday july fifth and it is release day for Rogue’s Pawn who. Ah I have some tea now this is my paris mug did I tell you guys the story of this one before when David and I stayed at the Paris hotel in Las Vegas for our anniversary I think was for our 25th anniversary I was getting ready putting on my makeup and he popped out. We were gonna go out to dinner and he popped out and came back with this little mug because I thought it was so cool if you’re not on video. It’s um, like when those mugs set straight sided. But. It flares slightly from bottom to top and it has black and white alternating vertical lines alternating fat and thin and then in red it says Paris across it. It’s very french looking I think probably there’s a name for this design but and he brought me a little split of champagne with it. It was just ah was a true love thing he knew I would like him. so ah so yeah Rogue’s Pawn rerelease out today. Thank you all for your support on the book. It’s um. Really appreciate. It. Really lovely of all of you to say nice things about it and buying it and so forth I hope you like it. It’s so funny thinking about this book because. So much of my oh look is there’s even emotion in my voice right? Ah of my of my newbie writer hopes and dreams were were in that book I’m I’m not a fan of saying things like the book of my heart I don’t really believe in the book of my heart. Um. And every everyone’s while when I say that to somebody they’re like oh but this book is the book of my heart almost It’s like you. Okay, um I don’t really believe in calling books babies. Ah.
02:39.15
jeffekennedy
Get what I’m saying. But I also know that I tend to be um I don’t know more I don’t want to say cool or remote. But um I am not as emotional about somethings. As many people are. Um, noticing that water has collected in this fire pit and that it may be breeding mosquitoes I think I see larvae on the top I’m going to handle that hold on there. We go. So. Yeah, it’s funny because when I wrote this book. Ah I called it Obsidian and I just I thought it was going to be the answer to all of my hopes and dreams right? I thought it was going to be huge. I had read other books you know like I’d read twilight and loved it. I had read other things that were very popular at the time. Um I think I mentioned that I found my old spreadsheet for when I was first writing. When I pulled out Rogue’s Pawn to reformat it to put it out on my own Rogue’s Pawn was the title that we came up with at Carina press in part because they didn’t like Obsidian I think also because I kind of screwed myself with them because I had written. The um, the erotic novellas that were one word jewel titles: Sapphire, Ruby, Platinum and then Five golden rings which should have been Oro and they thought that there’d be too much confusion which. If I had known that was going to be a thing I would have like stuck with Obsidian but then Jennifer L Armenttrout came out with a book called Obsidian um before ah right around the same time and and it was. It was pretty big. It was one of her early hits and so I was like well you know so but and when you’re a newbie writer these things I don’t know they affect you more. You’re maybe because you don’t have that that thick skin yet that we talk about.
05:12.80
jeffekennedy
Which I don’t believe is really thick skin but it’s um, it’s maybe it’s maybe understanding that a single book isn’t the make or break and I think that when we begin we think that it will be we think that that single book will be the answer to our hopes and dreams that it will be um yeah that it that it you know like this the the whole idea of my one big chance right? and. So like going through that spreadsheet and looking at the books because I was trying to figure out I’d been writing short I’d been writing essays and I had published or you know University Of New Mexico Press had published my collection of essays and you know so I wasn’t. Completely I was bright-eyed and bushy-tailed. But you know my fur wasn’t wet anymore I kind of knew what I was doing but I didn’t know how many words a fiction book should be and I knew that learning to write a novel that I was going to have to learn how to work more incrementally. As opposed to writing short when I would often draft an entire essay in one sitting come so so I went through and I picked out these different books. And I typed in sat there and typed in pages from those books to figure out approximately how many words per page they were and then looked at how many pages and calculated it. You know so so now we know it seems like everybody knows you know. Because when I was telling this story to like some of the faro girls on the Discord you know they were saying well isn’t it about 275 words per page and it’s like yes, but young Jeffie did not know this I didn’t know that yeah and then that was approximately what I came out to but so some of the books. That I came up with were um or that I used for examples wh=ere Kushiel’s Dart by Jacqueline Carey and I don’t think I use Twilight let’s see which ones I used hold on. So the books that I used and it’s really kind of interesting to look at this very old spreadsheet from my very beginning days. Ah I used um one of the kitty books by Carrie Vaughn and it’s funny because.
08:00.14
jeffekennedy
Carrie’s now a friend of mine I love that as I said cushhi’s startt by Laurel K Hamilton or I’m sorry by Jacqueline Carey and then I also did a book by Laurel K Hamilton it would have been one of the anita bla a blake books but I don’t I didn’t know which one and then. I was trying to there was another book that I liked at the time that was an urban fantasy called Stray and I’m trying to figure out who the author was um but I’m not being able to load Amazon right now. Our internet has not been right since it got knocked out. Ah, in the storm that we had when was it Friday night knocked out our internet for most of the night and it’s still they keep saying oh it’s fine now. But it’s not fine. Oh good here. It comes let me look it up so it was Stray by Rachel Vincent and I start looking to see what Rachel Vincent was doing lately and it doesn’t look like she’s put out a book since 2018 so which makes me cock my head quizzically, it could be that she’s writing under a new pen name people do that. So if anyone knows. Do let me know. So anyway I thought that I thought Obsidian was brilliant I thought it was just I really did think it was gonna be like Twilight and I thought I was gonna make all kinds of money and. I was going to be famous and adored and I don’t know all of the things that people want with their first book and you know and then it ended up being difficult to market or rather difficult to sell because everybody said that they didn’t know how to. Market it and and it was funny because the people that I would talk to about it and and it’s hard when you’re a newbie writer and you don’t really have friends who are in the same arena or the friends that you do have are also. Trying to figure out how to sell books in their lives and so forth and so they don’t really know any more than you do, but you know like my husband who had really gotten into some of the success stuff and you know like manifesting. Your desires and all of that kind of thing. Um, he ah you know he was saying well you have to believe in the book. You know you have to really believe in it and I was like I do believe in it and I always believed in it and yet there becomes this thing where you you can really believe in it and also be terribly insecure about it.
10:52.54
jeffekennedy
And I kind of I remember those years. Um where I I think I started writing it in. Um oh and it actually says on here I think I figured it out. It’s on this I love that I keep spreadsheets because I can keep track of these things. Because I did write down what date I started it I began it April Sixth 2007 and so long ago isn’t it. Um and then and in many ways, not right? It’s only 15 years what’s happened in 15 years since I started writing that book. So yeah I both believed in it and then you know sort of went through this whole character arc right on this book where I went from. Overweening confidence and ambition for this book to tremendous insecurity. And I was doing much better than I knew at the time. Um, you know, getting full manuscript requests and building good relationships with agents all of these really good things that stood me in good stead later. Um, excuse me but I wasn’t selling the book you know and and people would ask me like you know what I wanted for my birthday or what I wanted for Christmas and I would say a lucrative multibook contract to remember that. Those of you who knew me then and you know I wanted I wanted big money for it. I wanted a big debut I wanted all of the things and as time went on. It became increasingly clear that that was not going to happen. That that I was too sideways of the mass mind and I’m reading this book now just even going through it and putting it together. Although it fits certain itches I mean I could see it better now. It’s not clear. But genre is in some ways I’m calling it dark fantasy romance now it is pretty much um, but you know it has the portal thing which always confuses people I need some water that’s better.
13:33.61
jeffekennedy
So So yeah, it. It has been the story of my life is that I have never been squarely down the middle of any genre I’ve always been a little bit cross genre even now when I try to do something that’s like really. Squarely in Genre. It always ends up having this weird twist to it I Really don’t even try anymore. Um, so excuse me. Um.
14:14.69
jeffekennedy
It was just you know I was so emotional about it then and wanted so much. And yeah, it’s kind of funny to look back on my. Ah, myself then and feel compassion for that younger writer that I was and at the same time understanding why it wasn’t going to work the way I wanted it to work.
14:50.19
jeffekennedy
So when I finally sold that book I sold it to Carina Press who was much more willing to ah take a chance on a kid with a dream. Um, that you know they. They were Harlequin’s digital first imprint and so they had a lower overhead and more risk taking and so I will always owe that to Carina for taking a chance on that book. Even if they didn’t make me change the title. And I did briefly toy with changing the title back again with this re-release but you know that’s water under the bridge at this point. So so I’m very interested to hear how. Sort of this new audience receives the book. You know, will it feel like um I’m getting funny reflections on my face here to die. Maybe maybe it’s meant to be the the cracked facade of the older author now.
16:07.82
jeffekennedy
I was trying to pause here there I shifted a little bit. Ah, it’s not making that much difference. It doesn’t matter so I don’t know if this has made any sense. Um, you know I had a good friend. Who was in the query trenches with me and she got her book deal which I and I didn’t um and she got hers. She got a 3 book deal for $30K which other people sneeringly said oh well that’s not that creative a deal when I’ve told this story and it’s funny. It’s like actually you know, maybe it’s not an amazing deal but it was it was a decent deal and other people have not gotten that good of deals. Um, and I am grateful for the success I did have because a lot of people didn’t do that. Well so you know it’s always a mixed bag that way and yes at the time when I was doing this shopping um, people did suggest that I self-publish. And at that point it just wasn’t it wasn’t as robust to market them and you know it could be if I had hit that market right around 2009 2010 that it would have um you know like that was kind of the route that’s grace and i. Grace Draven um she and I had very similar paths and experiences and wrote similar things so you know it was not surprising our first very long coffee date which we talk about sometimes which ended up being like 3 hours long um you know we we discovered how parallel our paths have been and in some ways she was unluckier and luckier than I was in that she sold her book to master of crows to Amber Quill press and they gave it this horrible horrible cover and. Sold nothing and did not do well and while I did not love my Rogue’s Pawn cover Carina did do they put a lot of marketing into it I mean it did reasonably well um, whereas Grace was really driven to then self-publishlished because she. Um, just couldn’t just couldn’t live with what they’d done to her book and so that ended up doing well and then radiance did incredibly well and if I had self published then would it have made a difference.
18:55.00
jeffekennedy
Instead of doing those ten books with Carina Press so I don’t know it’s interesting. It’s just interesting to think about you know that so much is serendipity. It’s hitting the market with the right thing at the right time having the right people believe in it. And which is the reason why my least favorite piece of writing advice is or one of them is you know to write a really good book. Yeah, it’s like well writing a really good book helps but there are patently books that are not so great that have done well. And then there are really great books that never made it anywhere and it’s that’s only such a small piece of things. So at any rate rerelease of Rogue’s Pawn very interested to see how it does now lo these many years later. It’s sort of you know, like the whole. A romance dark and conflicted relationships are really in right now and that’s um, very classic me to ah have been 15 years ahead of the trend and not in a positive way. But yeah. Glad to have this book out there. So ah, happy release day to Rogue’s Pawn and I will talk to you all on Thursday you all take care bye.
How traditional publishing handles covers, the importance of the first book in a series, and how trad sometimes punts (or fumbles) on that second cover. Also thoughts on my new reading catnip.
Transcript
00:00.41
jeffekennedy
Good morning, everyone! This is Jeffe Kennedy author of epic fantasy romance I’m here with my first cup of coffee.
00:27.70
jeffekennedy
Ah, today is Tuesday June Twenty first and summer Solstice Longest day of the year we’ve actually already pivoted happened at 3 thirteen this morning my time and it’s a good thing. We don’t observe things by the solar calendar here you ever wonder how they managed to pull it off and like the united kingdom right? Um, it’s cloudy here today. Very overcast. We’re supposed to get more rain which is incredibly welcome. So rain rain rain!
02:01.63
jeffekennedy
And the garden is looking lovely makes me happy I have a ah guy coming by at any time now supposed to stop in between this certain window. To give me an estimate on hauling away a whole bunch of our brush remember I posted those pictures of like our all the tumbleweeds because our monsoons were so robust last year and we had so much growth and then such terrible winds this spring and we’ve got this brush just piled up everywhere. So he’s going to come by and give me an estimate on hauling it off also exciting. Um, and it’s musing because his name is hay-SOOS which is a very common hispanic name especially in this region but it is spelled like Jesus. And so I’ve had it on my calendar and it’s somewhat disconcerting to have Jesus on your calendar I almost um, tweeted about it I had a very pithy tweet about having Jesus on my calendar and then I thought should I? But is that a good idea and my policy is is if it occurs to me that tweeting or Facebooking something may not be a good idea I default to not.
04:58.30
jeffekennedy
So um, yeah, getting back in my groove I was clearly tired from the traveling and what all because yesterday afternoon I just hit tired. Um. Even hit tired before that after the second hour of writing I laid down to put my feet up because I work on the walking desk and so I occasionally like during our breaks I’ll elevate my feet get the blood going the other direction so I had my book in my hand and. Put my feet up on the you know sort of the futon couch in our bedroom and fell asleep I was late coming back I was like I was sorry gurnda I totally fell asleep and then by late afternoon I was just fighting sleep. And I considered going and taking a nap then but it was already 4 and I thought ah do I really want to take a nap at like 4 and it’s still wanted to take 1 at like 5 so I read for a while in the grape arbor the pergola under the pergola and I think maybe this is a pergola but then when you put grapes on it. It becomes the grape arbor does that seem like a reasonable definition. So I read for a while then I watched an episode of ob b one. But only watched the first episode I think david didn’t love. Love love it and he was he was sleeping because he had had a bad night the night before and hadn’t slept much so I watched ob one and I’m liking it. Um. I’m not gaga for it I have thoughts about that I’ll talk about that in a moment. Um, but then by like seven thirty I was just still feeling like I needed to sleep so I ended up starting to get ready for bed. You know, picking things up and that kind of thing and I was asleep by 8:30 people and slept until six thirty so clearly I needed it I was kind of thinking about the thing about shows because we talk about them so much. Um. My ah couple friends had recommended watching ob b one saying that they thought I’d like it and I do It’s not that I don’t like it. But I think part of it is because I don’t watch all that much tv overall I prefer to read right? you know? and so i’m.
10:37.85
jeffekennedy
Get very absorbed in the books I’m reading. In fact, I’m not sure if I mentioned I probably didn’t since this is partly over me being gone but you know I’ve been doing this whole series reread of this author who I’d liked for so very long. Um and had fallen off and. Didn’t ever get around to her spinoff seriess or not off to um, more than like a couple of them that I wasn’t wild by but then later she did some series with spinoff characters where she did the same. Ah, female male lead for 3 books and I’m discovering that this is my catnip. This is my sweet spot to have that same relationship for 3 books which is why I am considering doing that for. I have to figure out at like what point does considering become the plan I am considering doing this for the next books in the bonds of magic world I mentioned that book one is being called shadow wizard. Which I think is pretty well set. And yeah I want to do 3 books with Judgeron and Cellie and then I want to do another trilogy with somebody else I don’t know if I should say yeah because it could change right. That’s the other thing. Oh he Zeus might be here I will be back now. It was someone doing something over at my neighbors. Um, also apparently all way brush tis the season. So. So yeah, that’s some I’m discovering I really love that especially in something like epic fantasy romance or urban fantasy which is what the books I’m reading are and it’s um, yeah, where you have a lot of. External arc where you have a lot of action lot of things going on being able to have that romance that’s developed over the course of a trilogy is ah yeah, just my catnip these days and it’s what I want to read? It’s what I want to write.
15:35.73
jeffekennedy
So that’s why a couple of you did comment social media to me about the am I really talking about nine books in the bonds of magic world and yes, reader. I am ah I think it was Laura Darnell asked if I’m going to do these straight through or if I’m going to interweave them with other books I wish I was doing them straight through I really do. But I do have other things to write. It’s one. Things about when you have a relationship with an agent that you kind of have to accommodate that relationship. So unless she’s selling books for me, she doesn’t make money and we also kind of have to keep my name out there and so forth. So they. Secret projects secret projects. There are 2. One is totally brand new. It’s this idea that has been a twinkle in my eye I think these guys are stuck I have to go look again? Sorry okay so I think what happened is they were not going to my neighbors. It looks like they. Are delivering trees which is great season to plant them with the monsoons and I think they came around the corner a little too fast and went to the borrow ditch and they had to get the ah truck on the borrow ditch. You know he slipped a slidey with the mud people here aren’t used to it. So anyway, ah, what was I saying I shouldn’t let myself get distracted. So yeah, reading oh the new projects. So yeah, this one has been a twinkle in my eye since early in the year and Sarah is interested in that story. And then the other one is one that I’ve talked about before which is the science fantasy that I wrote like 50 pages of and we went out on submission and came this close now. These guys are roaring off again. Glad this is not my brush guy because these guys are um, not on top of it. It was oscars tree service not my lord and savior Jesus. But I can hear their engine roaring. They’re just like ah they were running around like ants around the truck. Ah always exciting around here. So anyway, um, yeah, so the other ones the science fantasy we came this close I thought I was going to sell it.
21:07.55
jeffekennedy
To Tor I mean the the editorial director at Tor said that she fucking loved this book. But it was too close to something else that they had like sold and marketed like a decade before this is how tribe publishing works. So anyway, um. I had mentioned in our beginning of your planning call to agent Sarah that I was planning to finish writing that book and self- publishlish it because I do love it and she said well since it has been since fall of 2019 my how time flies. Ah. If I’m going to go ahead and write the whole book. Anyway, would I let her take it on submission one more time because the publishing houses have completely turned over It’s you know by the time we got it out there. Well at this rate who knows when I’ll have it written but you know could be spring of 2023 and that’s coming up on 4 years so we’ll see um I need to talk to her about which book she would like to see first but I’m going to write shadow wizard then write one of those books and then um and then go to town on renegades of magic. Which is what I’m calling this trilogy but back to the trilogy that I’m reading ah I had read this I read all the way through all of this authors currently published works and it was a great reading binge I enjoyed it and those. The last trilogy she did I really feel like she just knocked it out of the park I just loved it and now I’m in the peculiar position of do I recommend it without ah tipping all of you off to who I’ve been reading all this time. Because I know I bitched about stuff in the earlier books. But I love this trilogy I love this trilogy so much that I turned around and reread it which is unusual for me part of it was because I finished that third book and I was going to be flying the next day and I wanted stuff to read on the airplane I wanted something that I knew would satisfy me get me through the airports and I wasn’t ready to leave it behind. So now I’m almost done rereading the third book and then I swear I will move on with my life and read something else. But. Wow are these books good? um it. It just hit my sweet spot. So um I don’t know what I’m gonna read next I’m supposed to read something for I’ve I’ve couple things that I’m supposed to read to blurb and so I need to start doing that.
26:49.65
jeffekennedy
Work that into my schedule see if I can. Um yeah I was thinking about a syndrome I was gonna just sort of tip you guys off to this. This is a part of my personal theory of how the world works. But. I think it’s correct because I would not harbor an incorrect theory. You guys. So one thing about traditional publishing is that they will really invest in the cover of the first book of a series. Um, did. They just have this whole mindset of promoting that irst book which can be a useful mindset I mean there there is a lot to be said for having control of the none um I just get over having control of that none book in the series. Because that’s the entree. Um like I was mentioning yesterday with covenant of thorns with my re-release of those books I looked at the math. It’s 3 times I have 3 times as many preorders for book one as I do for all 3 and you know so some people are giving me that vote of confidence of yes. I’m absolutely going to read all 3 but you know the other 2 thirds of readers I think this is probably a pretty reliable statistic will preorder book one and see how they like it and and I would totally do the same thing so and Amazon has a really cool deal. Where and I love this actually that when you buy the first book and then decide to buy the rest of the series. They’ll give you that series price less the book you already own. So there’s really no penalty to waiting. So you know that first book is the entree traditional publishers have that much correct. What they what they do that is really frustrating is that they will then punt on the cover of the second book. I’m trying to feel what this is behind me I could see it on the screen. Okay, it’s it was just that um fragment of that vase that I have back there for some reason it was looking dark and lurking. Don’t mind me while I get distracted. So part of why I’m thinking about this is that I don’t know what it is about the second book but they kind of they must have this make or break and I don’t have the inside knowledge on this but I’ve observed it happen where.
32:27.37
jeffekennedy
If the first book doesn’t hit some kind of watermark for them then they slap a cheap crappy cover on the second book which I can’t even um, it’s they did it to me on 12 kingdoms. The the mark of the tala has a really great intriguing cover. It’s not my ideal cover. It looks a little too YA they made me change the title of that book because it was originally called the middle princess. They made me change the title because I felt like the title was too YA which fair enough. Ah, but then they slapped a really YA cover on it and as one of my stalwart readers Mary Lynn Nielsen I don’t know if you listen to this podcast mentioned she was going through and compiling books by women fantasy writers. She was really interested that Kensington called those books fantasy. They didn’t package them as fantasy. So some of that is confusion within the house I don’t even know. But for the second book for The Tears of the Rose that cover wasn’t nearly as good. It’s um, there are a lot of crappy things about it and they gave me 0 consultation. They handed me that cover. They said here you go um I think it was even posted before I saw it and I was terribly disappointed because it’s um. If you go look at them. it’s just um it’s a dumb cover. It doesn’t look like it doesn’t look like anything um and it’s not as well done as not as well executed as the first cover. The third cover is much better and I did get. Input into that cover. So I I’m not exactly sure what happens there if they like do books one and two too rapidly and like that second cover is like okay, let’s do the same kind of thing. But as I said I’m thinking about this because I have a friend who had self-published some books and then decided to um where we don’t talk much anymore from long history. There. So I don’t know why she made the decision but she went with this small press. Publish the books for her and I know she was at least social media excited on it right? You know talk to up a good game. Really happy to have someone else publish and market these books for her yada yada they gave her a really cool cover for that first book and you know it’s like great.
38:02.65
jeffekennedy
And and this is totally legit I am not um, you know whatever people decide to do you know having somebody else package of market. Your books can be huge if you don’t want to spend the time doing it and you know if you’re hoping to break into other markets. So forth so they give her a gorgeous cover for that first book. And then just the other day I saw the cover for the second book and it’s nothing like the first book. It’s not nearly as good and it’s like what they did to me on these that’s like they just phone in that second cover and and I tend to think it’s when. That first book doesn’t sell at the numbers that they want it to so um, the mark of the talla is still still selling strong. In fact I just got this renewal of rights the other day. It’s it’s selling consistently. Um, you know my first agency. Sends me checks and she sends me little congratulations with it because it’s like still making money and I know a lot of people still pick up those books still love those books. Um I I would love to get the rights back for those books and I just think it ain’t gonna happen because they sell too well. But. I wish I could because the the other option folks is if they so well enough that they decide to put new covers on them so we could hope for that because um I while I’m fine with the first and third covers. Um I would love a new cover for tears of the rose. So let. You know that Hbo mini series when they decide to recover to match the series aesthetic. Let’s do that all right? I’m gonna go get to work today and hope you all have a wonderful midsummer day. Um. Perhaps a midsummer night’s dream tonight and I will talk to you all on Thursday you all take care bye bye.
Big thanks to loyal listener Meghan Ciana Doidge for the gorgeous coffee cup! Also about my writing retreat, what was fabulous about it, what I like about the phrase “story brain,” and other news, etc.
Transcript
00:00.00
jeffekennedy
Good morning Everyone! Oh I forgot.
00:15.68
jeffekennedy
Good morning. Everyone this is Jeffe Kennedy author of epic fantasy romance I’m here with my first cup of coffee who clearly all. Discombobulated today is Monday um June twentieth 2022 and I’m back yay and look if you’re on video you can see that I have this gorgeous I feel like qvc. This beautiful mug suitable for all occasions. Um hand paintted with beautiful flowers. This was a gift from lovely and amazing steadfast podcast listener Meghan Ciana Doidge ah she asked me a while back. If she could send me something and it turned out to be this gorgeous mug that she got at her local farmers market I could totally be on Qvc couldn’t I the way I gesture her to the and she also sent me a yummy chocolate bar I got it like the morning that I left. And so I didn’t have an opportunity to say anything. But thank you Megan that was really sweet and she sent me a really nice note with it thanking me for the podcast and um sifwi work and all of these things and. And it meant a great deal I was incredibly touched and I shall treasure. It. Thank you as soon as I saw it was a coffee cup I was like yeah oh if you’re on video you can see jackson s lurking behind me. He’s out here. Um. We’ve been having rain while I was gone. The monsoons came in which is subject for rejoicing. Um, so great. Ah free water falling from the sky. It is truly a miraculous thing I know I use the metaphor. All the time in my books about drought and like water in the desert and there’s a reason for this people. Everyone’s well I think maybe I shouldn’t use this yet again and then it’s like but it’s the bar right of our so um. Last week I went on a writing retreat I went on Tuesday and left very early I did have travel shenanigans um, think this is just going to be our lives for the near future that there’s just going to be.
05:54.24
jeffekennedy
Airline travel shenanigans they are desperately trying to make back their money. Ah from pandemic. They don’t have enough people they’re charging extortionate prices and giving shitty service. So yay, but. And went on this writing retreat. Um I finally did find out for those of you who who listen regularly that um that the person hosting it preferred not to have their name connected to it yet because they’re still putting things together. This was um. Little bit of a test they’re considering hosting ongoing writing retreats and had invited me and a few other people to kind of come be the guinea pigs and see you kind of kick the tires that kind of thing. And to keep an eye on Jackson um, and you you guys it was. It was fabulous. It was so wonderful. Um, in fact, that reminds me I meant to they gave me an exit survey and I meant to reply and say um that I’m happy to give a testimonial anytime. Have to remember to do that fact, let me put that on my things to do list I hope you guys don’t mind – testimonial – otherwise I forget to do these things. Um. So oops so it was beautiful. A location I will post a picture of my writing spot. It was very different from my natural habitat in that it was um in a warm and humid place and was forestres. And I would sit and write at the verge of the forest in a they called it a pergola I always call this the grape arbor they call it but it was very much like this um only their vine was not growing. Um, and I’m not sure why it was kind of fascinating because this. Land has been within the same family for a really long time over 100 years and I could see evidences of previous gardeners. A lot of the garden had been neglected for a very long time. But. It was really cool to see where the garden had been and sort of identify with this person who had gone before and spent all this time putting things into place and I had a ah very strong desire to.
11:31.88
jeffekennedy
To work in that garden and reconstruct it I remember when my mom married for the first time my mom’s been twice widowed and my when my stepdad died her second husband my first stepdad. After he died and she remarried to my current stepdad stepdad Dave ah Dave was like going through our house. They ended up eventually selling that house in Denver and he was going to the house and you know like. Down in the basement through Leo. My stepdad’s workroom and he said made a really interesting comment that because he hadn’t known Leo and he said that he felt like he had kind of come to be friends with him. Sort of seeing his projects and seeing how he had organized things and not organized things and that is how I feel about this probably in a more distant way. But this ah unknown gardener I felt like I could see the traces of I’m I’m gonna. Like I guess there see that although I was picturing a woman that I could see the traces of her design and her aesthetic and I found some. There were some plants amidst the overgrowth you know that were still struggling on and I could. Picture her planting those things and seeing how it looked when it was all in life. So I think that’s going to turn up in the new book I did start the new book. Um. And I believe it is the working title which I believe will be the sticking title is shadow wizard du um, and and I’ll set up a approved or for it soon because it’s goingnna be september you guys. It’s gonna come out in September but. It started and I’m happy with that title Shadow Wizard things for all of you who sent suggestions greatly appreciate it I think that this trilogy title is going to be. Renegades of Magic. It’s what I’m playing with so. So yeah, um, the retreat. It was very late back. It was unstructured.
17:04.30
jeffekennedy
Ah, my friend who is organizing and hosting it um did offer a conversation writing conversation but not necessarily direct teaching that sort of thing. I think that this would vary depending upon who decided to do it. But I think that um yeah, it was just it was so relaxing and and you all know if you are a longtime listener. You know that I am more than a little um I know. Want to use the word. Compulsive Jackson is really watching something over there I making sure he’s not going to go over the wall I don’t know what he’s got his gaze on oh mustve been a bird all right? So I am. Highly ritualized about how I get my work done. So I said to my friend that I think I’m the only person who goes on a writing retreat and panics about not getting any writing down and my friend said no everybody feels that way. Everybody worries that they’re not going to do it and I thought well it’s not exactly the same thing because for me I can feel reasonably confident that if I stay home I will get my work done and you know and I lost time and energy to travel right? that Tuesday was was a wash. Um. Did do some shopping if you follow me on Instagram you will have seen that I did buy a couple things while I was stranded at the dallasport where is that airport. Ah. Yeah, I’m not going to talk about my travel shenanigans. So and then Wednesday I spent a lot of time just kind of getting my head back into the bonds of magic world and then I did. Get writing done on Thursday Friday and then Saturday before I leave for the airport. So I’ve got I’m about 5,000 words into the new book and and I’m happy with it. One thing that I decided to do since I was on retreat was. Thought okay, well this is an opportunity for me to mix things up a bit that I don’t have to do try to replicate my at home experience. In fact, I will not be able to replicate my at home experience. So I I kind of just left it open I let it be.
22:26.58
jeffekennedy
Working on stuff as I felt like it I let myself be a little bit more dreamy and less focused on getting the word count done I didn’t keep track of my hours and so forth and it was definitely a much more relaxed approach. Um. There was a lot to be said for that kind of Approach. What’s going on. Okay, he’s just up under the tree have to make sure he’s not marauding the Avian Life. Cat wrangling. So So yeah, now I’m I am kind of wondering if I should mix up my process a little bit and I don’t know. Something to keep in mind anyway or maybe it was just good for me to do that every once in a while I Really loved um, just being out of my routine I loved being off on my own day. It was great having someone who is a career author organize something like this because my friend was sensitive to just how writers are and so for like breakfast and lunch. They they did all of the food they provided the food they wanted it to be like. You know that I could just have whatever whenever I was ready so they would just set out like um bowls with different kinds of fresh fruit berries and that kind of thing they had asked me ahead of time if I had food allergies or what I didn’t didn’t like to eat and then at lunchtime they had set out salad makings. So. You know, big bowl of lettuce and then various other things that I could construct my own salad with and so like when I finished working on stuff when I finished writing I could just waltz in and you know find everything set out for me and it was very princess-like. And then they cooked dinner for me and provided conversation and that was um, it was all charming I did get to ask my friend about this thing I’ve been pondering about going to multiple povs. Ah. With shadow wizard and and she asked really good questions. Um, instead of offering advice asked me a series of questions about why did I want to do it and which is really a good way to do things and after I finished talking about it.
28:11.58
jeffekennedy
She pointed out that I had only one reason not to do it and a whole bunch of reasons for why I wanted to do it and she used the phrase story brain which I really like um and would like to credit her with and will someday when I am given leave to say where I was and who I was with. But I found that really helpful because for some reason and you know this is all part of like figuring out what your process is of owning it. Um the terminology like muse inspiration that kind of thing. Just doesn’t work for me because I don’t know I don’t like the idea that the muse is some sort of external deity that deigns to come or go I think. Well my stories seem to come from somewhere that is not always within my conscious control. It also doesn’t feel like this numinous thing that has its own mind and personality. Instead whoops have to stay back. Get a little bit of sun breaking through the clouds monsoon. Ah I like the idea of storybra. Because it does feel like a very particular part of my brain. Let’s see where he went now. Oh there. He is okay, you guys might be able to see him on video. He’s right under the tree but he’s also in with the flowers. Yeah, so. That’s really how this feels is that this is my story bring really wants to do this thing and so I’m gonna do it I’m excited and I feel. Um, relieved maybe. And then sense and energized to have permission I’m putting that in air quotes to to do this so that was a great outcome. Um, and yeah, it was just ah, it was basically a vacation where i. Got to still talk writing stuff and get some writing work done and and that was fabulous. It was great. So I’ve got about 5K words so far on Shadow Wizard.
33:41.72
jeffekennedy
Start ramping up into that. Um, thank you all for the lovely comments on Storm Princess and the Raven King it’s a um out it got to be in the like top 5 recommended indie books on. Barnes and noble that was kind of cool huh. So I’ll share that on social media today that came while I was gone I didn’t look at email the whole time I was there that was one thing where they offered me the wi-fi password and I just never asked for it until like the. Day before I left when it occurred to me that I didn’t know anything about my plane flight and maybe I should look but but otherwise I didn’t look at email and that was um, wonderfully relaxing and good. So um. Yeah, storm princess is out. Thank you all for the ratings and reviews kind comments really happy that you all love it that it satisfied expectations and did the cover reveal on the covenant of Thorn’s books I will be sharing those. The coming week and those will be releasing through the summer the preorder is up I’ll add that to the show notes I ended up for those of you who have been following for a while I did not delete that scene that I was considering deleting. Um. I think I did the work on this on Monday. So yeah, oh that’s right I didn’t do a podcast Tuesday so I ultimately decided not to take it out I did change a couple of things I changed a line about rape that I decided was. Way too flip for today’s sensitivities a change of ten years Yeah, but I read to that scene and it was a not as bad as I remembered it. The same thing that Carien found when she went through and and read it that it was. Not as long, not as terrible not as sexual as she had remembered it. So again I do think this is a migration of what is shocking to us over time. It was no longer as much as I thought it was and also. If I had taken it out. It would have required a lot of work to the book and I decided to leave it so that was an interesting discovery so preorders are up for those books and thank you all for preordering i’m.
39:17.46
jeffekennedy
Amused by how many people have preordered the first one some people have preordered all 3 um but it’s something like um I don’t know 4 times as many have I have 4 times as many preorders for book one as for 2 and 3 which totally fair. I mean I would do that too was like no I want to read book one and see if I want the rest. So just interesting to see. Yeah, so um, we’ve got July and August for those three books releasing. And then Shadow Wizard out in September I think and I think book two will be wild familiar. We’ll see so that’s all my excitement happy to be back in the saddle refreshed rejuvenated Thank you again. Meghan. And I will talk to you all tomorrow you all take care bye-bye.
Transcript
00:00.92
jeffekennedy
Good morning, everyone! This is Jeffe Kennedy author of epic fantasy romance I’m here with my first cup of coffee. What do you think should I just say that I should probably like stick to None thing. This is the story of my. Writing life that I don’t stick to None thing today is Tuesday may none outside again. Beautiful morning running a little bit later this morning because the man suggested a walk then we took a walk. It was lovely. He needs to exercise more so I was like yeah I’ll take a walk with you I was seeing what you can see of my gardening stuff there. Got a little bit nicer background now see I’ve got my moved my plants outside I don’t think I mentioned that yesterday because I sort of got off on this whole rant about details details shmi tells right? Um, yeah, so. Ifinally moved all the plants outside decide that the terrible winds were done with and so it was time to do that isaac I also didn’t mention that we had a really nice time on Sunday because I wanted to go to the nursery get a few more plants I got that nice orange poppy see that. Pretty I got a pink poppy too. For some reason I have trouble growing poppies here I don’t know why I don’t know if it’s too dry. They don’t over winter I’ve also realized belatedly because I do not keep a chart spreadsheet of my garden, Alexia. People really do that I am not see okay tangent. But and I’ve mentioned this before that my friend telling me many years ago that she had read that people who have uber organized lives tend to have very messy gardens. And people with messier lives have very organized gardens I am the first she told me about it because she was so incredibly amused that this was like me in a nutshell because it’s like yes and I’ve always been this way. I’m the meticulous volcano right? Leo Virgo Cusp and my life is very calm and neat and ritualized and organized I like it that way I like it peaceful no drama. No um, you know what.
05:18.32
jeffekennedy
Best I can do it no unexpected things but my garden is chaos which I like it that way and she was so amused that this is like exactly who I am I like the absolute. You put my picture next to it. So anyway, I was realizing as I was planting some new stuff that none of my echanasia over winter I have planted I got really serious about it and I think maybe I didn’t notice last year. Maybe I forgot. I can’t remember which year it was but I’ve planted I bet none a connection purple comb flower various stages bear root full plant none of them over winner. So I don’t know our winners are very dry. So maybe they dry out too much. Maybe they get munched by the go fars, you know and people laugh when I say I don’t know how to categorize my podcast is it. A fitness podcast is it a writing podcast is it a. Gardening podcast I don’t know.
08:11.66
jeffekennedy
That was funny like little rock dropped or something ghost. At a dream the other night that I attended my own funeral guys ever had that kind of dream. First time I’ve ever had it. It was funny because I was with my friends and I was going to something else or thought I was going to something else and we were going to this huge auditorium. And there were all of these people here and they had my picture up on you know, like the poster on the easel like they do for memorial services and stuff and um, like little. You know the little pamphlets that they give out at funerals and there were a lot of people there I mean it was a big auditorium and I was like why are there so many people here at my funeral and I don’t know most of them. What does it mean. I was just really kind of funny and it was I wasn’t sad. In fact, I kept thinking they’re all could be really surprised when they find out I’m not dead. Um, so. So that was a tangent and I shouldn’t have gotten on the tantret because now I’ve forgotten what I was going to say not knowing how to categorize my podcast. What did I start out with sorry you guys. It’s like the final two weeks of finishing the book. Plus the nebula conference what brilliant timing on my part and by this I mean it was not brilliant timing I did. Okay yesterday I didn’t get None words but I got enough to keep on track and I’ve got. None words 80400 so I’m getting close. Um, especially since I figure in the neighborhood of um, None to None are going to be my 4 epilogues.
12:44.62
jeffekennedy
Dang I could we wish I remember what I was starting out say going to the garden center. We had fun who knows. But anyway it was fun going to the garden center and it was fun that David went with me. He doesn’t always feel like going out and doing stuff but he felt like doing that and then we went to whole foods something else. We never do because we wanted to look for some good fresh fish and Sunday morning is really time good time. Go shopping at whole foods. And yes, it was expensive even with the prime discount but we did get some really good fresh fish in fresh cherries. There was a lady ahead of me in line who had gotten the same cherries we had in those none cherries that we’ve seen this season. And we’ve gotten 2 bags of it without looking at the price and it turned out they were like $15 a bag. Ah $8 a pound none a pound um and £2 in a bag. So yeah, those were expensive cherries. But the lady in line ahead of me was questioning how much she’d been charged for the cherries and they said oh but there’s seven ninety nine a pound and she said no, they’re supposed to be none of pound and she whipped out her phone and she was showing the ad and. I’ll tell you what this kfuffle took a long time to settle. Ah and I mean we were good. It was gorgeous day. We were having fun out doing our Sunday shopping and she kept apologizing to me and I was like no no worries at all I said we bought some too so you’re you know, doing a service for me and I said it drives me crazy. When it’s a different price on the bin versus at the register or in an ad you know because I think a lot of people don’t pay attention.
16:59.98
jeffekennedy
So we did that and then David suggested we go out to breakfast so we went out to breakfast and that was lovely too and then I came back and planted my plants and that was fun. So yeah I think um. Started into that whole chaos. Oh I guess the whole point was that I I don’t know what happened to the echhanasia things just don’t come back and then I forget about them until like years later when I’m like but wonder what happened to my whole plan to plant a bunch of Ehanesia and make more ihanneia tincture. So this time I um I was complaining to David when we were at the nursery that I couldn’t couldn’t seem to get poppies to grow here and he said why not they should you grew them and learn me and I’m like I know I don’t know what it is know and maybe our son’s too intense I don’t know. And he said well maybe you should try planting them in a different place and which was sort of like oh well gully g whiz maybe I will do that because there’s this one part of the garden that is a little bit of a barren wasteland. It’s very sandy. There. It’s I don’t know. I’m not sure why but things do not thrive there and I keep planting new stuff there because it is the barren wasteland but now I’m realizing that I’m also maybe dooming things to die. So I planted the poppies over here to see if I could get them to grow. There had to move the computer a little bit because the sun is coming so um, what else do I have to say I know I was thinking about things and I was going to write them down and then I did not being bad and wrong. I think I’m going to scoot over here. So I’m not leaning okay, that’s better. It’s whoops have to do this angle a little bit there. Ah the sunshine angle this time of day. So nicer view for me. Not so nice for you. If you’re on video which I don’t you know I don’t look at my stats much but that’s a whole nother whole nother discussion. So let’s see. Yeah I’ve just been thinking hard about the book. How to finish the book. Um and reading.
22:23.30
jeffekennedy
Still doing this read of this series and picking up these other novellas and something that I am considering doing is and I had this long conversation with Grace on Saturday because I think she should consider doing it too. But. A lot of people have asked me about writing from rafe’s point of view from the mark of the talla and he is the only one that I’ve never really written. Well there’s a couple I haven’t written from Raeve’s point of view I’ve not written from marsalll’s point of view 0 point of view careen or crawl. Um, would be hard to write from Karl’s point of view but I had always thought with the None kingdoms books that especially when I was younger and more idealistic than I am now. That I would eventually get my Hbo of me and miniseries. But that series this is what we all think right and I thought that when I got my Hbo miniseries for the Twelve kingdoms one of the things I would do is I would go in and I would write the intervening storylines like what was going on with the people who are not on the page since those books are written from none person point of view of whoever’s book. It is so like the first book. It’s all from Andi’s point of view and but there are other things going on. Ah you know because that’s the thing about first person point of view. So I love first personson point of view because it’s very intimate but also it imposes a certain kind of discipline because the story can only take place where the None person narrator. Is observing so you only know what they hear about so there are all these other so things going on in other parts of you know the world other characters and so forth that Andy only learns about right? We only know about it because she learns about it. So I had always thought you know it would be really cool to write these other storylines and that I would do that I wasn’t planning to be the screenwriter. But I thought I’d write these other storylines I mean it still could happen. You know people get these shows or that um you know like Patricia Briggs is getting ah.
27:59.88
jeffekennedy
a show for Mercy Thompson and when did those books come out.
28:15.26
jeffekennedy
So sorry about that it wasn’t letting me pause. So the none book in the mercy thompson series is moon called and that came out in 2006 you know so 16 years she’s just now getting her series. So anyway, I was thinking recently why wait although it’s not like I’m running out of stuff to write but would it be interesting to rewrite those 3 Twelve kingdoms books at least from the hero’s point of view. I know this is kind of in vogue right now but partly because it’s in vogue. It’s um, it’s an interesting way to regenerate interest in a series I think and I’m observing my own reader behavior. Going to this series which you guys could totally guess what it is at this point. Um, but I’m not going to confirm nor deny since I’ve been complaining about it. I also love it I mean that’s the thing is I really love this series and so it’s been educational to go back and reread. And I know something I was going to say earlier because yesterday I was talking about how I thought that I had not finished that um, whatever it was book None and now I’m on book None something like that. Um. I I have totally I thought maybe I would have to buy book 6 because I thought I fell off the series but I had book None on my Kindle and and it’s familiar. So it’s like did I just like not finish book None and skip to book None or what it’s before I was tracking. Which books I read so now I’m just really curious. What went on but I didn’t remember easily the second half of that book 5 so I don’t know what I did so anyway I um. Starting to think about other things and I can’t do that and talk at the same time I’m thinking about that it could be fun and interesting to redo at least rewrite Mark the Tala from Rayfe’s point of view. Um, because what I’m doing with this series is like I said I’m going back and I’m buying the novellas I didn’t get and I’m probably going to buy whichever book will find out where did I fall off this series for real because I’ll probably end up buying the rest of the books. Um.
33:38.96
jeffekennedy
And it has been a great way to get me thinking about this series again. So I think that there’s something to be said for that. Um, there are readers who will say that it’s a cop out. Ah, and yeah. I mean yeah, but it’s also like a good way to pay the mortgage and also provide fan service because I know people ask me about Rayfe’s point of view all the time I don’t get it so much for the others other than my assistant Carien campaigning for Zyr’s point of view and I don’t know Carien – would you be happy if I rewrote um, what is it? the arrows of the heart if I rewrote that from Zyr’s point of view or does it feel like too much the same story. She wants her Zyr novella she wants. Um. She is none? That’s all there is to it but you know I did those novellas from Ash’s point of view and Harlan’s point of view and I’m my forgetting any I don’t know. See that’s the thing you start to forget your own books too. Anyway, it’s not like I’m running out of stuff to do but um I think that that could be fun. Um, so what else I told you got great magics out in audio book I told you that. Sorcerous Moons is on KU with the new covers I told you that that I’m getting new covers for covenant of thorns that were very excited. Oh and I was going to follow up on this because I had a conversation with Carien – Assistant Carien who has read all my books which is one of her wonderful qualities I talked to her about deleting that scene that I’ve been talking about in Rogue’s Pawn in covenant of thorns and she agreed it should be deleted. She said that? yeah she thought it didn’t match the tone of the rest of the book. So there. We are um and and Megan Ciana Doidge who listens in comments sometimes said made a very good point that just because Jim and I would go back and look to see what had been changed does not mean that the normal reader will do that. I fully am aware that I am not a normal reader if I ever was I stopped a long time ago being a writer reader is different reading what that editor bring analytical bring. So.
39:07.14
jeffekennedy
I am going to delete that scene and then I it was funny because Carien and I were chatting like on Google chat and I said well if anything occurs to you in the other books that should be changed. Let me know and she’s like well actually there is something. And it was something that had never occurred to me that um that she thought I needed to clarify and clean up I was like oh all, right? and opinions. So any of you out there who loved covenant of thorns. Um. If you think that there’s stuff that needs to be tweaked or clarified etc. Here’s your chance and and thank you all for the advice that you have been passing along and I appreciate the support and on that note I’m going to go get to work. And I will talk to you all on Thursday you all take care bye bye.
Transcript
00:00.37
jeffekennedy
Good morning, everyone! This is Jeffe Kennedy author of fantasy romance and romantic fantasy I’m here with my first cup of coffee.
00:15.70
jeffekennedy
Delicious coffee elixir of life. How the hell are you guys today is Thursday may twelfth. Yeah, ah, it’s um. Fairly warm I mean coolish warm here in Santa Fe and overcast this morning and it’s not windy so I’m out here in the great barber for once in a straight on shot because I don’t have the rising sun in my face. Ah, it was really nice to wake up to a little bit of moisture in the air and the little bit of cloudiness stillness is supposed to be windy today but maybe after this, it’s come back off although I see. Mid next week is looking Windy again. My I move my plants outside this weekend I I know that this is something if you have listened to this podcast for a long time. The moving my plants outside is always a yeah, an event. It’s a deal you guys and I’ve left it long this year because I didn’t want him to get battered by the wind. But I think I’m going to go ahead and do it. Um, there’s one that I hesitate to move out to the front porch with this monkey tree. That’s really great. And it’ll get torn up by the way and but then the leaves grow back. So I don’t know I shouldn’t obsess. Ah, so um, ch ch ch things things something rustling nearby. What could it be a mouse There are a lot of rodents again this year
02:18.18
jeffekennedy
Yeah, so I make good progress on the on the book yesterday. Um I was still not done with this revision. It’s still going slowly but on um Tuesday I made it through 47 pages and yesterday I made it through 41 which so that’s going considerably faster than I was I’ve also been adding a lot of words I’ve added well so far for this revision I’ve cut almost 2000 words and I’ve added um. Trying to forgot what the actual ad was well I’ve gone up a net of nearly 4042 pages to go so theoretically I should finish the revision today I did not mean to hit that excuse me. We do not need to open a Zoom conference. So I’ve got writer coffee today. But otherwise I hope to get to that revision and can add those remaining words at least with this revision something happened that I was hoping would happen in that. My overall word count revised down. It’s not going to be 102000. It’s gonna be like a 98000 which I mean I realized that it may sound immaterial if it’s like 95K, 98K or 102K but I mean it’s a difference of a couple of days of how long it takes me to write it. So I take 98000 is probably going to be spot on. Glad for all of you who are excited about the 4 epilogues I’m excited about the 4 epilogs. And then we shall. Um, yeah, get this one out there. So speaking of getting books out there I had kind of an exciting exciting slash daunting event yesterday ah congratulations are in order because. I got the rights reverted to all 10 of my Carina Press books 10 books people. It feels like the end of an era um Carina press was the first to publish me well almost. Um, LooseId and Ellora’s Cave each published one smallish thing for me I did Petals & Thorns with LooseId and then the the vampire books my vampire books in um, with Ellora’s Cave.
05:09.20
jeffekennedy
Doing feeding the vampire with Ellora’s Cave because they wanted Petals & Thorns and there was communication problem and dhad already taken it but those were all smallish books. Um. More so smallish presses whereas we had such high hopes for Carina back in the day because it was um harlequin’s digital imprint. We thought we were gonna get like the whole harlequin marketing machine behind it. Some things manifested other things didn’t um. Carina was I loved working with Carina I really did and I still loved the people at Karina I learned a lot there. They were great they were great to me Angela James you know, started out running. Ah. Press came over from Samhain books which they did pronounce Samhain I asked the owner once ah, you know there’s just a lot of history. There. It was a really heady time. You know it was around um the around 2000 8 2009 and it’s just funny to look back on. Yeah so 10 books 10 books I did with Carina will be mine now I know I will make more money on them selling them myself. So that’s great. Ah, however, this is ah leading to a bit of angst. It’s like I have to do covers for 10 fucking books people I’m tempted. Maybe I’ll package some of them I don’t know I need to like figure out the smart way to do this. Some of them are smaller. Um, contemporary bdsm novellas. In fact, 7 of the 10 are contemporary Bdsm and which is like not full on my brand right now. But so I have to figure out how I want to do this. It requires thinking and planning and marketing savvy and I’m not feeling really equal to the task at the moment and then the 3 that are fantasy romance my covenant of Thorn’s trilogy I’m going to have to make up my mind about that because do I do I fix them I’m tempted to fix them at least the first one there. Yeah I know I’m so I’m almost inarticulate about this.
08:00.54
jeffekennedy
Because I go back and forth right? It’s like do I because Rogue’s Pawn, the first book in Covenant of Thorn’s was the first novel I ever wrote and I revised it multiple times and I can see the ways now that it is flawed some people love it. I don’t get many. People loving it the way that I used to but that could be because of Carina and I know that I can recover rebrand remarket. Ah you you know it’s so funny because like the the bargain with the fae king kind of thing is such a. Big deal in kindle unlimited right now in fantasy romance. That’s what that’s what these books are they’re about a scientist who ends up in Faerie and makes a bargain with this ah Fae, Rogue, and as usual and this sort of my my blessing and my curse I was I was kind of ahead of my time on this stuff but also my fairy my landa fairy my fay are all more alien and weird. What many people are writing these days and I think I mentioned this on here before but I saw someone tweeting about reading it and they didn’t tack me I I don’t remember why I picked it up I think maybe it came up under because I like I a search for my name and. Somebody said they were picking them up and were all excited and then she didn’t enjoy it. She said um that she felt like she’d gotten whiplash between the whimsy and the darkness and I don’t know maybe that’s my brand I feel like this is the spot I live in. But I’m wondering if I should go through and smooth it out. Also there is this section of the book. That’s very very dark that is stuff that I did not want to write I wanted it to be there only in flashback and my editor really pushed me um, like 3 times i. Ended up like right? she kept way more and more and more and so I ended up writing this whole scene and I know that that’s something that people really react to very strongly because it is ugly. It’s meant to be ugly but I never meant it to be on page so I’m really tempted to go in and take that out. Um, frankly I’m you know like on the other end of the spectrum I’m tempted to go through and rip the whole thing apart and redo it which no I know I can’t do that I won’t do that and so then the other extreme is not to touch them at all and just.
10:49.23
jeffekennedy
Take the files put them up have done buy stuff to pay for covers covers for 10 books 4 of the books are novellas that um are my facets of Passion series and those are um, sapphire platinum ruby and 5 golden rings and 5 golden rings was supposed to be called oro but Angie James thought that no one would get oro which means gold and. And it takes place in Mexico and it was in a holiday anthology. So what do you think? do I keep the name the same do I change it I’m tempted to put it back so many things so many decisions you guys I know that this is a champagne problem I know this is a good problem to have I i. Bitched in 1 place on a forum and I think and really I only got hearts which I think was like good problems to have Jeffie I have 10 books that I can release.
12:04.45
jeffekennedy
Now. So then the other three I guess I I didn’t say the other three are my um, falling under books which are full length contemporary bdsm novels and. So one way to approach this is to put up the ones that have sold the best right? and it’s definitely those books those books I’m actually surprised they reverted the rights to me on those books because they um they they still continue to sell pretty well. But I mean I might just try to set up a deal where I have like a release every thirty days on Amazon right? Just keep the momentum going along with my other books I’m releasing I do have a. Reserved spot with my cover artist Ravven for the rest of the year and probably we’ll just keep doing it that way I can always cancel but I can get her going on these covers and they’re not horribly expensive. They’re not what other people. Pay you know, like for other stuff but it’s still a financial investment right? Oh gray magic is live. Okay, so now all 3 bonds of magic books are live in Audiobook. I just got the message last night so I need to get those going for some reason acx put the second book in erotica and I don’t know why and I asked them to change it once and they haven’t done it. Feel like it should be in the same categories as book one. So I’m going to have to deal with that more business e things right? business business. So that’s good news. It’s it’s like that. Ah, but it it really is good. News. But. Ah, did make me think and I even made this note the other day and then forgot to oh no I think I made it later on the day on Tuesday but you know 1 thing about earning your living as an author which we talk about that. It’s the dream and I did think that this was funny. Um. Ah, few weeks ago on the sf f seven where I blog one of the other writers said that because we said um, are you a full time writer is it your dream if you are you know like how do you do the finances and so forth and one of the.
14:47.41
jeffekennedy
Writers said that they are absolutely a full time writer that they’ve always been a full time writer and just because they have a day job doesn’t mean that they’re not a full-time writer. Ah, you know and it’s like okay, but you’re you’re kind of mincing words here. This isn’t what we’re talking about when we say full time writer. It means it does mean a few different things right? and and people want to be able to claim it because it’s like some kind of badge of honor which I don’t. Think it should be because being a full time writer I think means that you don’t have another job that you don’t have any kind of day job or so you know most of us have like side gigs of teaching or other things but not. Salari not consistent income. Um, that’s what I think it means but just because you’re a full time writer does not mean that you are supporting yourself with your writing and that’s really the dream right? That’s what we want is like this. Have the career where you support yourself as a writer a lot of writers are subsidized by a salaary benefited spouse which is no shame I mean that’s that’s great. Um, and I wish I had that because it would be much It’s just a lot more security. It’s much easier because the thing about it is that yes, this is the dream that you don’t have another job that you get to write full time but you know the thing is is it is a fair amount of pressure that. You know, just like I’m feeling with finishing this book where you know like I really want to get it so that I get that money from Amazon you know thirty days earlier right? if I get this book out by the end of may then I’ll get that money by the end of July and I’m looking ahead to my finances. Later in the year and it’s like I need to have a certain amount of money coming in every month so that I can keep us afloat and you know it’s one of those things where I think a lot of us think that earning being a full-time writer supporting ourselves as a writer means that we’ve made it. That we’ve gotten there and as I’ve talked about many times making it is an illusion right? That’s there is no made it there. You know unless you really hit the jackpot as a writer where you make a whole slew of money enough so that you never have to worry about it again.
17:29.26
jeffekennedy
Then you’re always hustling. You’re always looking towards that new book to releasing those new books just like I’m talking about with my reverted writes books you know, getting that you know packaging I’m and getting them ready to go. Um. So. It’s just something to consider because I think a lot of us think if you and I certainly did for a very long time like I had my number in my mind when I still have my full time career type job I thought well once I make enough money from my books. To be equivalent to and I 2 milestones right for my salary. What I was making as an environmental consultant which was admittedly a high bar. They paid me well which was wonderful of them and then if I figured in like the value of my benefits and I thought well you know like if I could get into that area. Then I’ll be fine right? because I’ll be bringing in enough money from the books to be equivalent to my salary but the thing is is even though you’re bringing enough money from the books at 1 time doesn’t mean that you will continue to do so because it waxes and wanes and things go in and out of fashion. That’s another thing with my covenant of Thorn’s books is I admit to a fair amount of insecurity about whether these books are really good enough and whether people will like them or if I should retire them of course that’s the eternal insecurity of the altar right? so. Um, yeah, that’s where I’m at I really feel like I need to hire someone to do promo for me to do to be a publicist and maybe I need to circle back to that because the 1 person I tried to contact they never. Got back to me. Oh well. So um, yeah I’m gonna go get this podcast up and then go out and have um, we’d still call it writer coffee. Although one of the guys wants to call it writer or brunch because we do sit there for a couple of hours and eat so I’m going to a new to me place in Santa Fe not new to Santa Fe because it’s been here since the mid 70 s apparently and I don’t think I’ve ever been there while the other guys suggested I was like never been there looking forward to it so I’m gonna do that. And I hope you all have a wonderful Thursday and I will talk to you all tomorrow take care bye bye.
